Matt and Becky are missionaries and teachers in Thailand. In this episode they talk about getting out of a rut and what it looks like being full-time missionaries.
[00:00:07] Welcome back to another episode of The Vision Pod, where guests are hand-picked to bring value to your everyday life. Enjoy.
[00:00:30] Okay, perfect. Today we're here with Matt and Becky. They are missionaries from Asia.
[00:00:36] And so I have the pleasure of having them on. Becky's also a podcaster, so she podcasts with her dad.
[00:00:42] And Matt is the Dean of Victory College in Thailand.
[00:00:49] So you guys grew up very differently, so how did each of you guys grow up?
[00:00:54] You can go first, since your story is more boring.
[00:00:58] My story's boring, yeah, right.
[00:01:00] So my upbringing is basically farm kid, Alberta.
[00:01:05] Then I moved to grade two, moved to Vancouver area, so I grew up mostly in Vancouver.
[00:01:11] With the farming background, so that's always good.
[00:01:14] Every kid should grow up on a farm, I tell ya.
[00:01:16] That's right.
[00:01:17] So we moved there to Chilliwack and played hockey.
[00:01:23] I played Junior A, moved away from home.
[00:01:26] Grew up in a Christian home that was growing in their faith, eventually becoming more committed and things like that.
[00:01:35] So I grew up in a Christian home, went to play hockey, kind of left my Christian faith at the door.
[00:01:42] I was drunk one night, and the bouncer was a Christian that drove me home.
[00:01:48] And then he kind of talked to me about Jesus, and I already told him I was a Christian, but I wasn't living like one, pretty much.
[00:01:55] And so that was kind of like God's way of poking at me and getting me back to start aligning kind of back on what he had for me.
[00:02:05] So after that, I moved to Lethbridge, and I met Becky there.
[00:02:09] We were in our 20s, and we eventually got married.
[00:02:14] She asked me to marry her.
[00:02:16] Really?
[00:02:17] Yeah.
[00:02:18] She proposed and everything.
[00:02:19] We have two very different versions of that story.
[00:02:23] Why?
[00:02:24] What happened?
[00:02:25] Well, when we first met, Matt was actually coming off of, you know, he's trying to get his life right with God again.
[00:02:35] So here I am, this second-generation missionary kid.
[00:02:38] My friends are all church friends.
[00:02:40] We're all hanging out together.
[00:02:41] And he comes in, and he's a little bit rough around the edges, right?
[00:02:44] We go out, and he, like, orders a beer, and he, like, says swear words, and he's, like, smoking, and, you know, all of these evil things.
[00:02:50] So we were hanging out in the same church circles, but he just wasn't the picture of the person that I thought I would marry.
[00:02:58] I actually thought I would never get married, to be honest, because I knew I was called to Thailand.
[00:03:01] I didn't think I would ever find anybody that wanted to be in Thailand long term.
[00:03:05] So, but just seeing his heart towards God, his passion and sincerity towards God, you know, like, even though he was still trying to figure out where his faith was,
[00:03:16] he was very committed to following Jesus, and when God spoke to him about something, he would correct.
[00:03:21] He would change, you know?
[00:03:22] And I was impressed by that, and I was also impressed by his heart towards other people.
[00:03:25] He was somebody who was considerate and kind and also very bold, and just he had such, what's the word?
[00:03:34] Not so much integrity.
[00:03:36] I mean, he had integrity, too, but he was just real.
[00:03:38] Like, he wasn't faking anything, and I really appreciated that about him.
[00:03:41] And so then we kind of figured out we were interested in each other.
[00:03:45] He decided to go to Bible school, which was, like, awesome, because at first he wanted to be, like, maybe a history professor, you know?
[00:03:53] And we're dating, and I'm thinking, how am I, how is this going to work?
[00:03:57] Because this guy has no idea about vision or direction or purpose.
[00:04:01] Meanwhile, I'm totally, like, clear in my vision and direction and purpose, you know?
[00:04:05] But I had to trust God in the process, too.
[00:04:07] Yeah, and I also wanted to make sure I wasn't moving or making big decisions in my life based on a girl in a certain way.
[00:04:15] In a way, like, a lot of people make decisions just based on, like, she's so cute, I think I'm called to this because she's there.
[00:04:21] But, you know, you want to make sure it's, like, authentically, like, hey, we're going in the same direction, which is good.
[00:04:28] It's kind of a funny dating relationship because we're both, like, we want to see where this is going, but at the same time, we're both, like, I don't even know if this is right, you know?
[00:04:36] So we really had, you know, we had mentors in our life that we were listening to.
[00:04:40] We had principles and guidelines that we followed.
[00:04:42] But at the end of the day, he felt like God was calling him to Bible school, which I was like, thumbs up.
[00:04:47] And then the more he thought about it, he thought of maybe even going to Bible school in Thailand, which is the Bible school my family runs because my parents are missionaries in Thailand, which in my mind I was like, yay!
[00:04:56] You know, but I had to let him make that decision.
[00:04:59] So I never even suggested it.
[00:05:01] I never even hinted at it.
[00:05:02] And when he was like, I'm thinking of going to Bible school in Thailand, I was like, well, it's up to you.
[00:05:06] You know your call.
[00:05:07] So try to play it really smooth and cool.
[00:05:10] But at the end of the day, he ended up going there.
[00:05:13] And then while he was in Bible school, I went to visit him during Christmas break.
[00:05:18] And this is her version now.
[00:05:20] This is my version.
[00:05:24] And just the way that he was talking had changed because before there was no like future talk.
[00:05:29] There was no us in the future.
[00:05:31] It was still a lot of confusion, you know, but now he was saying, well, when I graduate and when I come back to Canada, we should, you know, and I was like, we like, what is this hitting in the direction that I think?
[00:05:41] And so I asked him outright.
[00:05:42] I said, so does this mean we're going to get married?
[00:05:45] And he's like, yeah.
[00:05:46] So I was like, okay.
[00:05:48] So then, you know, that's it.
[00:05:50] We're, we're, we're.
[00:05:51] Engaged.
[00:05:52] And I announced it to the world, even though he wasn't.
[00:05:55] Even though it had no ring.
[00:05:59] So it wasn't like I got on my knee and proposed.
[00:06:02] I just asked him, so is this happening?
[00:06:04] And he said, yes.
[00:06:05] So that's the story.
[00:06:07] So Matt said, yes.
[00:06:09] Yes.
[00:06:09] Matt said, yes.
[00:06:10] I said, yes.
[00:06:13] Yeah.
[00:06:14] And then that night I made him tell my parents who wasn't prepared for that.
[00:06:17] It was very awkward.
[00:06:17] Yeah.
[00:06:18] It was so awkward asking.
[00:06:19] Oh, perfect.
[00:06:20] Ask her after the fact.
[00:06:21] Ask him, ask for the fact.
[00:06:22] Marched him into their house and was like, mom, dad, Matt has something he wants to tell
[00:06:25] you.
[00:06:26] Honey.
[00:06:26] I'm like, uh.
[00:06:28] It was great.
[00:06:29] Nothing prepared.
[00:06:29] That's funny.
[00:06:31] Yeah.
[00:06:31] And so Becky, you grew up with a whole bunch of siblings, right?
[00:06:34] And so Matt grew up with.
[00:06:36] Yeah.
[00:06:37] So when I was two years old, my parents moved our family to Thailand at the time.
[00:06:41] I had two other siblings, one older, one younger.
[00:06:43] My oldest sister was four at the time.
[00:06:46] I was two and the youngest was three months old.
[00:06:49] And they moved our whole family to Thailand because God had spoken to their heart to start a children's
[00:06:53] family, like an orphanage there from kids who were orphaned from the skirmish around the
[00:06:57] Vietnam War.
[00:06:58] And there was a lot of fighting on the Burma Thai border as well.
[00:07:00] So we moved our whole family there.
[00:07:03] And my parents adopted all together.
[00:07:06] It was like 28 kids.
[00:07:07] So it was like 32 or 31 of us all together.
[00:07:11] And I basically grew up in Thailand in a huge family, which was a lot of fun.
[00:07:16] And our life consisted of my Thai siblings went to Thai school.
[00:07:20] At that time, we did.
[00:07:21] We did homeschooling because we weren't able to fit into the education system that well at
[00:07:25] that time.
[00:07:27] And basically, we, you know, did schooling during the day.
[00:07:30] And then in the evening and weekends, we did ministry together as a family.
[00:07:33] My parents were very much evangelistic.
[00:07:37] We did lots of kids stuff.
[00:07:38] And in the summer when school was out for everybody, we would go on crusades with some
[00:07:41] other missionaries.
[00:07:42] And so my whole upbringing was being in family and being in ministry pretty much full time.
[00:07:48] And it wasn't until I was 18 that I moved back to Canada full time to go to university
[00:07:53] and then or college actually.
[00:07:55] And that's when, you know, I met Matt.
[00:07:58] And God just had to do some things in my life to help me grow up, be prepared for the
[00:08:02] ministry that he had for me.
[00:08:03] And that whole process, he prepared us, equipped us.
[00:08:07] We got married.
[00:08:07] We started serving in a church there in Canada.
[00:08:09] And then after a few years, we felt called to come back to Thailand together.
[00:08:13] That was in 2005.
[00:08:15] And we've been here pretty much ever since.
[00:08:17] We paid off student loans first.
[00:08:18] So yeah.
[00:08:20] You got to get your money in order.
[00:08:22] Yeah, that's right.
[00:08:23] It's totally different because she had like 33 kids in their house.
[00:08:27] And I had like, I have an older sister that's like nine years older than me that I grew
[00:08:30] up with.
[00:08:31] And then she left.
[00:08:32] I'm like, only child.
[00:08:33] And then she comes in.
[00:08:34] I'm like, dude, I need my space.
[00:08:37] So there's a lot of cultural differences, even though.
[00:08:42] Yeah.
[00:08:42] Just with that, there's a lot of cultural differences we have to run through.
[00:08:46] And so when you came to Thailand, obviously there's even more cultural differences.
[00:08:51] So what are some of the main ones that stick out to you?
[00:08:56] I think for me, it's how ideas are played out in society, to be honest with you.
[00:09:03] Like growing up, my parents are both British, right?
[00:09:06] I grew up in like Canada.
[00:09:07] And so coming to an Asian culture for the first time, like I thought Thai people spoke
[00:09:14] Taiwanese or something like that.
[00:09:16] Like I had no idea.
[00:09:17] Yeah.
[00:09:18] I just went to like the, one of the, my, my father-in-law's mentors.
[00:09:24] And he says, cause I was considering Bible college.
[00:09:26] And he says, so if you want theological training, you go to one of our schools over here.
[00:09:31] If you want like missionary training, you go over here and it's in Thailand.
[00:09:35] So you can go to Calgary or you can go to Thailand within the victory movement.
[00:09:41] And so I said, I'll just try Thailand.
[00:09:42] You know, it seems adventurous.
[00:09:44] I've never been there.
[00:09:45] I have no idea what I'm doing, but you know, it's Bible school.
[00:09:48] That's cool.
[00:09:48] That's what I want.
[00:09:49] Right.
[00:09:49] So it's a different place.
[00:09:50] I'll try it.
[00:09:51] So yeah, I was really taken back because it's, I just like seeing cultures that are different
[00:09:57] than mine and also testing my faith in different areas where I didn't grow up.
[00:10:02] So what do you, what do you mean?
[00:10:03] How I did ideas played out?
[00:10:06] So, I mean, if you think about it, you have Buddhism as like 98% or 99% of the people's
[00:10:14] worldview over here.
[00:10:15] And then you have India where we have Hinduism as the predominant worldview.
[00:10:21] And then you have Pakistan, which is Islamic.
[00:10:23] So these are the countries that are like, have lived out the ideas of their faith for years
[00:10:30] or centuries, even older than our nation of Canada.
[00:10:33] Right.
[00:10:33] So I wanted to see how that played out along with the modern ideas and stuff.
[00:10:37] So it was kind of interesting to see, you know, as a Christian with the worldview, how
[00:10:42] it would handle and how my perspective.
[00:10:44] And it actually opened me up to see like what's kind of biblical in my thinking and what's kind
[00:10:49] of Canadian in my thinking.
[00:10:51] And so it was really interesting to see, you know, I learned so much from their people
[00:10:57] and even the different, the way they, they live their lives.
[00:11:00] So partly it was another lesson.
[00:11:02] I love traveling.
[00:11:03] So it was another, another school of school of traveling is always good.
[00:11:08] For sure.
[00:11:09] Yeah.
[00:11:09] Yeah.
[00:11:10] Yeah, for sure.
[00:11:11] So when you're growing up in a missionary household, you probably have some pretty cool
[00:11:15] stories.
[00:11:16] What's the, what's the coolest story you can think of off the top of your head?
[00:11:19] Well, probably my brother being raised from the dead.
[00:11:23] That was a pretty amazing one because like I witnessed it firsthand.
[00:11:27] And just because of the fact that everything that we did was so faith had to be so real.
[00:11:32] We had to believe God a lot of times for sometimes even food, for meals, sometimes for vehicles,
[00:11:36] sometimes for healing, for health.
[00:11:37] So just seeing those miracles play out.
[00:11:40] And that one is the one that just stands out the most because it was pretty phenomenal.
[00:11:44] You know, I was probably about six or seven years old.
[00:11:47] We had all been at a swimming pool.
[00:11:49] And so there was our family of like 30 plus other Thai kids in Bangkok.
[00:11:54] So there's a lot of kids and we were getting ready to head home.
[00:11:58] And so, you know, the call goes out, okay, everybody pack up your stuff, get showered.
[00:12:01] So we all get showered.
[00:12:02] We get trained, we get dressed and we can't find Somchai.
[00:12:05] So we have no idea where he is.
[00:12:08] But by this time, just the amount of time it took us to like get packed up and showered was probably already like half an hour, you know.
[00:12:14] And we're looking everywhere in the boy's bathroom, can't find him.
[00:12:17] We're all like hanging out, just getting annoyed because he's delaying or going home.
[00:12:22] And then one of our, just a family friend that was with us when we were at the pool noticed that there was something at the bottom of the pool.
[00:12:31] And this was like an Olympic sized pool and it had like a really deep, it's for like people with practice diving and stuff like that.
[00:12:37] So it was like a really deep pool.
[00:12:39] And so he tried to dive down just to see if it was him or somebody and he came up and he couldn't reach him.
[00:12:45] And then, so my dad dove down.
[00:12:48] And when he came up, then Somchai, he had actually pulled Somchai out of the water.
[00:12:53] And I remember very clearly the lifeguard coming over to him and putting Somchai on his shoulder and like jumping up and down.
[00:13:00] And he like vomited out water in his lunch and it was like stuff everywhere.
[00:13:05] And they tried to resuscitate him and, you know, it was, he was, he was gone.
[00:13:11] And at that time I was holding onto my dad's leg.
[00:13:13] Like when the lifeguard came to take Somchai, I was holding onto my dad's leg.
[00:13:17] And then I remember very vividly my dad walking over to him.
[00:13:20] And I can't remember what he said as a kid, but he remembers.
[00:13:22] And he said, you know, in the name of Jesus, life come back into you.
[00:13:26] And my brother began to like slowly open up his eyes.
[00:13:30] We could see him begin to breathe and open up his eyes.
[00:13:32] And he wasn't like awake.
[00:13:34] It just was very slowly kind of coming to.
[00:13:36] And what makes this memory so vivid for me is I remember I was still holding onto somebody's leg and then it dawned on me.
[00:13:44] I thought I was holding onto my dad's leg, but he's over there.
[00:13:47] So I looked up and I was holding onto this random Thai guy's leg.
[00:13:52] And he smiled at me and he was like missing a tooth and it freaked me right out.
[00:13:56] Wow.
[00:13:57] Wow.
[00:13:57] I just remember like being like, ah.
[00:13:59] And then dad basically picked Somchai up and said, we're going to take him to the hospital and get him checked out.
[00:14:04] And this other friend that had been with us drove the rest of us home.
[00:14:08] So and, you know, Somchai was in hospital, I think, just for a day to make sure everything was OK.
[00:14:13] And then he came home.
[00:14:14] Wow.
[00:14:15] And so when you see God do something like that, there's no doubt in your mind that he's powerful, that he's real, that he's present.
[00:14:23] Yeah.
[00:14:23] For sure.
[00:14:24] Yeah.
[00:14:25] So how did you get into teaching, Matt?
[00:14:29] How did I get into teaching?
[00:14:32] He was born talking.
[00:14:33] I was.
[00:14:35] It's getting me to shut up.
[00:14:36] It's the problem.
[00:14:38] Actually, part of it is I've always wanted to be.
[00:14:40] I had inklings of wanting to be a teacher or a history.
[00:14:44] But part of me is like history is kind of boring to some degree.
[00:14:47] Like, like there's.
[00:14:49] Yeah.
[00:14:50] Like, I'm not super academic in any stretch of the imagination, but I do like to learn.
[00:14:55] And I think it's just the fact that learning has really changed my life.
[00:15:00] And I really like seeing people learn.
[00:15:01] And I really believe that truth can really bring freedom.
[00:15:04] Yeah.
[00:15:05] It can bring direction.
[00:15:06] And I really love the fact.
[00:15:08] I think I was born for it, to be honest with you.
[00:15:10] It's like part of my gifting.
[00:15:12] So it's something that's kind of something you as you work, you kind of unveil it, dig it out.
[00:15:21] You worked over here.
[00:15:23] You kind of slowly find your way.
[00:15:26] And obviously I'm teaching now.
[00:15:29] So for sure.
[00:15:30] Yeah.
[00:15:30] So I remember the first time he preached in church, he was so nervous.
[00:15:34] His voice was shaking and he was like, holy.
[00:15:37] And after he wasn't even preaching, I just had to read a scripture.
[00:15:41] After he was down, he was like, I don't think I could ever do that again, you know.
[00:15:45] But it was so neat to see, like, even that first time and he was on stage and he was scared.
[00:15:50] I remember watching him and thinking, I think this is what he's actually called to do.
[00:15:54] Because even though the gifting wasn't developed yet, you could still see the call, right?
[00:15:58] And I think that's really interesting that even though before when he wasn't even following Jesus,
[00:16:03] he still had the idea of, I want to somehow teach.
[00:16:05] And so he's trying to make it fit in the framework that he understood.
[00:16:07] But in the end, God had something more in store.
[00:16:09] So I think it's important to pay attention to your dreams and your desires.
[00:16:13] You know, how it ends up getting fulfilled may be different,
[00:16:16] but there's always a clue that God puts in your life about what you're called to do.
[00:16:19] I also had a guy pulled me into the office one day.
[00:16:22] He was one of the leaders in our church.
[00:16:24] And he says, I want to mentor you.
[00:16:26] I'm like, what's mentorship?
[00:16:28] He's like, I'm like, what does that even mean?
[00:16:31] You know?
[00:16:32] But he says, yeah, I feel like you're called to, like, speak or something like that.
[00:16:36] I'm like, well, I don't know.
[00:16:38] Are you on drugs or what?
[00:16:40] I don't know.
[00:16:40] But I said, sure.
[00:16:41] You know, I'll do whatever.
[00:16:42] Yeah.
[00:16:43] So his first task was actually to get me on stage and read scripture, like, during, like,
[00:16:47] one of the things.
[00:16:48] Yeah.
[00:16:49] So that was then, obviously, through mentorship and stuff, he helped me develop the skills.
[00:16:54] But it was actually someone I'm like, why me?
[00:16:58] You know?
[00:16:58] Why are you picking me out of everyone's kind of, it was kind of odd.
[00:17:01] But I'm very grateful for it.
[00:17:03] And I won't forget it.
[00:17:04] For sure.
[00:17:04] To be honest.
[00:17:05] Yeah.
[00:17:05] Yeah.
[00:17:06] So what is your favorite thing to teach when in the curriculum?
[00:17:10] What do you love to get to?
[00:17:12] Well, that's tough.
[00:17:14] I like leadership stuff.
[00:17:16] I like apologetics.
[00:17:17] I like apologetics.
[00:17:18] I like big ideas.
[00:17:22] I mean, most of my books are, like, scattered from different categories.
[00:17:27] But I think if I had to zero it down, it would be, you know, leadership, culture, discipleship,
[00:17:36] apologetics.
[00:17:37] Yeah.
[00:17:37] That's probably my favorite part.
[00:17:40] Really slimmed it down.
[00:17:41] You picked six.
[00:17:42] Yeah.
[00:17:42] I broke it down to the second category.
[00:17:44] Yeah.
[00:17:44] So category 5.9.
[00:17:47] Yeah.
[00:17:48] That's awesome.
[00:17:51] So, Becky, you're an entrepreneur as well.
[00:17:53] You started your own business.
[00:17:55] How did you know to start that?
[00:17:56] How did you get into that?
[00:17:58] Well, I started because of two reasons.
[00:18:01] One, I wanted to get into the community.
[00:18:03] Like, we have a church here and we have a Bible school and we have outreach.
[00:18:06] And all of those things are effective to a degree.
[00:18:08] But we weren't really able to get into the community at large, you know.
[00:18:13] It's easy to do ministry for kids and for people that are, like, especially the impoverished
[00:18:18] and things like that.
[00:18:19] They're very open because they need assistance and help.
[00:18:21] But when you start touching the middle class and upper middle class, it's really hard to
[00:18:26] gain influence.
[00:18:27] And so I realized that everybody in our city and community is somehow connected to the education
[00:18:34] system, right?
[00:18:35] Either they have a kid or they've been through it or there's not anybody in Siracha that does
[00:18:40] not somehow go through the education system.
[00:18:42] So it seemed like an opportunity.
[00:18:44] And then secondly, it also is a good source of income.
[00:18:47] And so our ministry in Thailand was far outgrowing our ability for us to grow our partner base
[00:18:53] in Canada.
[00:18:54] And so we figured, well, if we can find a way to increase our income on this side, then
[00:18:59] we can, you know, help the ministry as well as get into the society, into the culture more.
[00:19:06] So when I started, I really had no clue.
[00:19:08] I'd never started a business before and it was just a matter of learning.
[00:19:13] You know, the first thing I did was study the schools around me that were really well
[00:19:17] known and well liked.
[00:19:18] And I tried to figure out, okay, what was it about them that added value to the community?
[00:19:22] What did parents like?
[00:19:23] And then I tried to upscale it even more, you know, how could I increase the value that
[00:19:28] parents get?
[00:19:29] So one of the key advantages that we have is English because it's something that everybody
[00:19:33] in Thailand wants.
[00:19:34] And so I already have an advantage in that I'm an English speaking person and my white
[00:19:38] face helps.
[00:19:39] So I basically built, yeah, built a curriculum around that and just researched and painted
[00:19:47] walls and bought furniture and try to make it as cute and as nice as possible.
[00:19:51] Started advertising and started with one kid and it just grew from their word of mouth
[00:19:56] mostly.
[00:19:57] And now we have a preschool for ages one and a half until six and then an elementary from
[00:20:04] six years old, which is grade one until grade six.
[00:20:08] So we've got about 70 kids in a school.
[00:20:11] Wow.
[00:20:12] So how did you develop a vision for that and how can someone else develop a vision for
[00:20:17] their?
[00:20:18] Yeah.
[00:20:19] Well, you know, honestly, at first it wasn't like I had a massive vision for it.
[00:20:24] I just saw it as an opportunity.
[00:20:25] And I think a lot of times that's where, where it has to start because I think sometimes people
[00:20:30] have a vision of, I want to be a great business leader.
[00:20:32] I want to be a whatever, but the, the resources and the wealth doesn't come from wanting to
[00:20:39] be, you know, a business person or whatever.
[00:20:42] It comes from having an idea of how you can either solve a problem or meet a need.
[00:20:46] Right.
[00:20:46] And so for me, I could see that in See Each Other was a need for English, a need for a
[00:20:52] really good education system.
[00:20:53] And the other thing that I noticed was the way that Thai education system is structured.
[00:20:57] It's very much by rote, by memorization.
[00:21:00] The kids have to be like rank and file in order.
[00:21:02] There's no creativity, no freedom, no discussion.
[00:21:06] And so I wanted to change that.
[00:21:07] I wanted to bring kids into an opportunity where they could actually learn on their own.
[00:21:12] They could be interested in what they're learning and they could choose, you know, what they
[00:21:15] wanted to focus their time and attention on and, and also be a part of the learning process.
[00:21:19] And so in seeing that there was that hole there and seeing that there was an opportunity,
[00:21:24] that's what actually started it.
[00:21:25] It wasn't a big dream to be a, you know, a teacher on my own school.
[00:21:28] It was just, I could see where I could come in with something of value and meet a need
[00:21:34] to solve a problem.
[00:21:34] And from that, you know, receive remuneration as a result, which is always good.
[00:21:40] I think you, I think you partnered with somebody.
[00:21:44] Is that, is that right?
[00:21:46] I was, sorry.
[00:21:47] Did you partner with somebody?
[00:21:49] No, in the beginning when I started it, actually, I took it out of the foundation because I wanted
[00:21:57] to, if this thing was going to succeed or fail, I didn't want it to have a negative effect
[00:22:04] on our ministry.
[00:22:05] So when I first opened the school, I actually took our own money, our own personal money,
[00:22:10] and I rented a building in another area of town.
[00:22:14] And I basically started from zero investing my own stuff.
[00:22:18] And then once I figured out, okay, this is working, we can make it work.
[00:22:21] And I was starting to hire staff and things were moving along.
[00:22:24] Then it was like, okay, now we can bring this back under the foundation.
[00:22:28] And so it's actually the foundation that owns the business and makes.
[00:22:32] So for me personally, I don't get a salary off of the business.
[00:22:34] It was never about making money for me.
[00:22:36] But what it does is it funds those in our ministry and it funds our outreach in the ministry.
[00:22:41] And missions.
[00:22:42] Yeah.
[00:22:42] And missions.
[00:22:43] So you guys both are kind of involved in Seven Weeks in Asia a little bit more.
[00:22:47] Becky, what are each of your favorite things about helping out with that?
[00:22:53] I just love having input into other people's lives in a way that I think can make a difference.
[00:23:03] I think sometimes, and even though I grew up on the mission field, it's like this too.
[00:23:06] You get so used to your bubble.
[00:23:08] You get so used to your comfort that you don't even know how to see things in a different
[00:23:12] way and in a new light.
[00:23:13] And I love it when we get to build relationship with people and together as a team, not just
[00:23:18] the guys that are on Seven Weeks, but even us as leaders, you always get to learn new
[00:23:22] things.
[00:23:23] You get to see new perspectives.
[00:23:24] You get to discover new strengths that you had, even new issues that you had that you didn't
[00:23:28] know that you had in your life before.
[00:23:30] And being able to learn that in an environment where everybody is safe, everybody feels like
[00:23:35] family, and you're allowed to be honest and to be real.
[00:23:39] Well, I find such value in that because most of society doesn't have the opportunity to
[00:23:46] be genuinely real, right?
[00:23:47] To be real in your attitude if your attitude sucks or to be real in your doubts or your
[00:23:53] struggles.
[00:23:54] And also to be real in your gifts and abilities.
[00:23:56] That's the other thing I find sometimes too is we have a hard time seeing other people
[00:24:00] really win and succeed, especially at new things.
[00:24:03] And that's one of the things that I love about Seven Weeks in Asia is people start sharing
[00:24:07] that I've never shared before or leading something that they've never led before.
[00:24:11] And you just see their confidence and just the joy of, I can actually do this.
[00:24:15] And what I did actually impacted somebody else.
[00:24:18] Seeing that part of people's life come alive means a whole lot to me because once you experience
[00:24:23] that, once you understand that who you are as a person and what you do, even in little
[00:24:27] things, can have a positive influence on somebody else's life, then you realize the kind
[00:24:32] of power and authority that you walk in as a kingdom person, right?
[00:24:35] What you say, what you do, how you conduct yourselves, how you give, how you minister,
[00:24:39] how you encourage can actually change somebody's life for the better and propel them into something
[00:24:44] great.
[00:24:44] So I love that.
[00:24:45] I love just as a team, seeing God use us in all of the aspects and just seeing us all
[00:24:51] do something new.
[00:24:53] It's fun.
[00:24:54] For sure.
[00:24:55] Yeah.
[00:24:57] Yeah.
[00:24:57] I think I'm in the same page as Becky on that.
[00:25:01] I love seeing, I love seeing the kids come and how they respond to challenges.
[00:25:07] Yeah.
[00:25:08] I love introducing them to our family around Asia.
[00:25:12] I know.
[00:25:12] Cause it's, it, and I really liked the relationships that we build, but I think my favorite one is
[00:25:19] seeing people grow and how they like, it's like light bulbs going off.
[00:25:24] Like, ah, or people change that.
[00:25:26] I mean, we've had, we have so many stories of like bad attitudes, you know, like, which
[00:25:31] is fine.
[00:25:32] They, they happen all the time.
[00:25:33] Right.
[00:25:33] But the, the way that it's set up is that you can't avoid people.
[00:25:41] I mean, it's like an introvert's nightmare.
[00:25:44] And so, um, but I mean, you're forced to deal with stuff, right?
[00:25:49] And in some, some scenarios or circumstances, people can get away from it.
[00:25:54] I mean, if you go to church, it's only one day a week for two hours here, you're like
[00:25:58] 24 hour, you're tired, you're hungry, you're traveling, you have to deal with your attitudes.
[00:26:03] It will come out cause you're getting pressed.
[00:26:06] And so I love seeing the change.
[00:26:08] I love seeing the maturity and the change in people and what happens to them afterwards.
[00:26:13] I find a lot of them can hear God for themselves.
[00:26:15] That's probably the biggest thing.
[00:26:18] And then they find some direction.
[00:26:20] Yeah.
[00:26:21] Yeah.
[00:26:21] How about you?
[00:26:22] I'm curious.
[00:26:23] What did you enjoy the most about seven weeks?
[00:26:26] Uh, yeah, I think just stepping out in my gifts.
[00:26:29] I liked, uh, stepping up and taking lead and that's where I, that's where I kind of figured
[00:26:34] out that I was leader.
[00:26:36] I remember you were, I was talking to you and I was like, I think I might start a podcast.
[00:26:39] And you're like, you should, you should start a podcast.
[00:26:41] And I said, I'm going to start a podcast later.
[00:26:43] And you said, you said you should start a podcast now.
[00:26:45] I was like, I should.
[00:26:48] So I was thinking about waiting until I was like a, yeah, I don't know, some, something,
[00:26:53] somebody else, I guess.
[00:26:54] But, uh, yeah, I, another thing I liked about it was that you weren't, uh, on your phone.
[00:27:00] So you were, you were having conversations face to face and, and it just, it's just so
[00:27:05] good because you don't have something to escape to, but it's not really escaping.
[00:27:09] Cause it just, it just like feeds you more anxiety or worry or like you have nothing to,
[00:27:17] yeah, I think it's just such a, such a crutch having to like be on your phone all the time.
[00:27:24] Or you could, you could feel it when the phones got brought back in, you could just feel like
[00:27:27] a different, like energy in the room.
[00:27:29] It was just like, wow.
[00:27:31] I, I miss, I miss, uh, like being able to talk to people again face to face.
[00:27:35] It was, it was definitely a different experience.
[00:27:38] Yeah.
[00:27:39] Yeah.
[00:27:40] The not having a phone thing is a blessing.
[00:27:42] Sometimes I wish I could just throw up the balcony, but.
[00:27:45] Yeah.
[00:27:46] Electronic leash.
[00:27:46] Yeah.
[00:27:48] Yeah.
[00:27:48] I think I'll get a flip phone or something.
[00:27:51] That's all I need.
[00:27:52] Go back to a pager.
[00:27:54] Yeah, that's right.
[00:27:55] That'd be cool.
[00:27:55] That'd be such, everyone says it, but like, I feel like I'll be the closest one.
[00:27:59] I think I'll do it eventually.
[00:28:02] Yeah.
[00:28:02] I think I'm, I'll need a camera on it.
[00:28:05] Maybe I'm not sure.
[00:28:06] Well, there's other ways.
[00:28:07] I think it's just, we're so addicted to information too, you know?
[00:28:11] And we feel like we have to be up on what's going on everywhere in the world at all times.
[00:28:17] And then you actually get disconnected and you realize, you know what?
[00:28:20] Life is actually way more peaceful and a lot more manageable when you're not taking
[00:28:25] on the pressures of the world too.
[00:28:27] Cause I think sometimes we overextend our emotional ability to handle things because we're inundated
[00:28:34] from, you know, we're not just worried about our own family or our own home.
[00:28:36] Now we're worried about Israel and Africa and the U S and the UK.
[00:28:39] And you know, it's just, it's, it's not our job to carry those pressures.
[00:28:44] And I think it sometimes encroaches on our piece clutter.
[00:28:49] Yeah, that's right.
[00:28:50] For sure.
[00:28:52] So, uh, what do you guys, what do you got?
[00:28:55] You guys got some big plans for this year?
[00:28:58] Yeah, we do.
[00:28:59] Matt's parents are actually coming for Christmas, which I'm really looking forward to.
[00:29:03] And his sister.
[00:29:04] Okay.
[00:29:04] Second time in 20.
[00:29:06] Wow.
[00:29:07] Crazy.
[00:29:08] Yeah.
[00:29:09] I got balloons going on.
[00:29:11] That's crazy.
[00:29:12] I don't know how you did that, but that's awesome.
[00:29:16] I celebrate.
[00:29:17] The internet is part of it.
[00:29:20] Celebrate.
[00:29:20] Yeah.
[00:29:22] Yeah.
[00:29:22] So, and then the other thing we have, um, we've actually got a few awesome things coming
[00:29:27] up this weekend.
[00:29:28] And we're going to Bangkok for Planet Boom, which is like a Planet Shakers third youth
[00:29:32] concept thing.
[00:29:34] So our Bible school is going there.
[00:29:35] We're participating with that.
[00:29:36] Then in January, we've got like women's conferences coming up.
[00:29:39] We have a team from the States coming.
[00:29:41] There's about 13 ladies coming.
[00:29:42] So we're going to do, uh, Sira Cha, Northern Thailand, and then Philippines.
[00:29:47] And, uh, in March, we're going to do a worship school here.
[00:29:50] It's the first one we're going to do in our building for like a week.
[00:29:53] We're going to have churches from all over Thailand come and, uh, stay with us.
[00:29:57] And we're just going to worship together, teach them skills and, you know, get people
[00:30:01] more engaged in writing songs for Thailand, for the nation of Thailand.
[00:30:04] Um, and then in the summer, we've got lots of plans with traveling with the band and the
[00:30:10] team.
[00:30:10] So there's always stuff happening.
[00:30:13] Um, always forward momentum.
[00:30:15] Yeah.
[00:30:16] There's so many areas, right?
[00:30:18] And I think one of our highlights is our Victory Asia Summit, which is like all 10 of
[00:30:23] our nation's leaders come and we meet like this year we met in Bangkok.
[00:30:26] And so it's like a big family reunion.
[00:30:30] It's called Young Lions this year.
[00:30:32] And so it was basically all the old guys had to sit, you know, and listen to the young
[00:30:37] guys, which was awesome.
[00:30:38] Right.
[00:30:39] Because you can tell a lot when you listen to what's on their heart, what they get or
[00:30:43] what they're seeing too.
[00:30:45] So yeah, it was a real encouraging time.
[00:30:47] It was a lot of great revelation and, uh, yeah, the future is bright.
[00:30:51] So it's great.
[00:30:52] Sure.
[00:30:52] Yeah.
[00:30:52] Yeah.
[00:30:53] So what would you guys say are some things to, to know before you teach or preach?
[00:30:58] Like what are some things to help someone out?
[00:31:03] I think for me, the biggest thing is whatever it is that I'm sharing, it has to be something
[00:31:08] that God's been speaking to my life or has spoken to my life.
[00:31:11] Um, you know, I used to go through a season where I would try to have an idea for a sermon
[00:31:17] and then prepare it or have an idea for teaching and prepare it.
[00:31:20] But at the end of the day, if I wasn't attached to it because it meant something to me, it
[00:31:25] was lifeless.
[00:31:25] Even if the words were clear and the points were clear and instructive and helpful, because
[00:31:30] it didn't mean anything to me when I delivered it, I just felt like it was like dead on arrival.
[00:31:35] So whether I'm teaching English or whether I'm teaching, you know, principles on leadership
[00:31:40] with the Bible school students, whether I'm teaching worship, it has to be something that's
[00:31:44] alive in my heart and in my spirit.
[00:31:46] Something that I'm really like passionate about because God's dealt with me about it
[00:31:49] and I have confidence in what he's spoken in my life.
[00:31:52] If it's not like a rhema, like a real alive word, it just doesn't have any power for me.
[00:31:58] Well, it's so spiritual.
[00:32:01] That's true.
[00:32:04] It's funny because she can like read and read and then prepare and then she drops her notes
[00:32:10] and then she rips this like banger sermon.
[00:32:13] And I'm like, like, I have to study and then I'm like trying to get all my points.
[00:32:20] So maybe I just have to grow up in some ways like that.
[00:32:22] But I would agree that it needs to be something that God is speaking to you.
[00:32:26] And you'll notice that too, even with reading your Bible, there's certain times, certain
[00:32:30] passages speak to you more than others or if you're in a different season.
[00:32:36] But I love the fact that, yeah, there's just so much to learn.
[00:32:44] I think my other tip too, anytime that you're sharing is you kind of stop, got to think,
[00:32:50] you got to stop thinking about yourself because a lot of times we kind of get hung up on how
[00:32:54] is my presentation.
[00:32:55] What are people thinking about me?
[00:32:56] Are they enjoying this?
[00:32:58] When I was able to switch my thinking from focus on how I'm delivering this to this is
[00:33:04] something that somebody needs and how can I minister to them and how can I connect to
[00:33:08] your heart?
[00:33:09] It totally changed the dynamic.
[00:33:11] It changed my confidence level because number one, I was no longer focused on how I presented.
[00:33:15] It didn't, it became irrelevant.
[00:33:17] And my focus became on meeting the needs of the people that were in front of me.
[00:33:21] So I think when you shift your perspective that it really isn't about you when you get
[00:33:25] up on stage, whether you're leading worship or you're preaching or you're teaching, it's
[00:33:29] really about connecting with the people that are in front of you.
[00:33:31] And how can I empower you?
[00:33:33] How can I encourage you?
[00:33:34] How can you understand this thing that's on my heart that I want to give you?
[00:33:38] And when you change that, people are way more open, you know, because they can feel it.
[00:33:43] They can really feel it.
[00:33:44] And the biggest connection point ever, the biggest tip that I give is make eye contact
[00:33:49] and smile.
[00:33:50] Smiling really disarms people.
[00:33:52] And sometimes when we're presenting, we're so focused on how we're presenting that we
[00:33:56] forget what our face looks like and we look grumpy or closed or whatever, you know.
[00:34:01] But as soon as you look at somebody and you smile, then they feel like, okay, now I can
[00:34:06] relax.
[00:34:06] Now I can receive from you.
[00:34:07] It's not as intimidating.
[00:34:09] For sure.
[00:34:09] Yeah.
[00:34:10] Yeah.
[00:34:12] It's simple, but it works.
[00:34:13] A lot.
[00:34:13] For sure.
[00:34:14] So what would you guys say to, or what's some advice for someone who just feels like
[00:34:19] they're, they're kind of stuck and they don't really know where to, where to go.
[00:34:24] And I don't know, maybe it's just a dead job or something like they just feel like they
[00:34:29] can't get out.
[00:34:32] Yeah.
[00:34:32] I think when you feel stuck, the first thing that you got to do is ask God again, Kate,
[00:34:39] why am I here?
[00:34:41] Because if there's a specific reason, I mean, it sounds super spiritual, but it
[00:34:45] really, it has to be, it has to be that.
[00:34:47] And sometimes the answer is because you need this job to make money to pay for rent
[00:34:50] for now.
[00:34:51] Right.
[00:34:51] Or because this is my opportunity to change you, train you and how to be a leader when
[00:34:55] you're under poor leadership.
[00:34:57] There has to be an understanding of what is it that I'm here to do or here to learn.
[00:35:01] And if you can understand the value of that position, maybe the job's not great.
[00:35:07] Maybe the people that you work with aren't great.
[00:35:09] Maybe the customers aren't great.
[00:35:10] But if you understand that God's using this to build and develop something in you, then
[00:35:14] you'll actually receive from that situation.
[00:35:16] Right.
[00:35:17] A lot of times we think that we grow well in, in well places, in good places.
[00:35:23] But the truth of the matter is you grow the most in difficult places.
[00:35:26] You grow the most in lame places, in boring places, in places that seem like it's dead.
[00:35:31] Because that's where God can really get at the heart of the issue.
[00:35:33] That's where you can see your deficiencies in your character, maybe the skills that you
[00:35:37] lack and, you know, things that you need to improve on in your life.
[00:35:40] So my first thing would be pray and ask God, is there a reason why I'm here and what is
[00:35:44] it?
[00:35:44] And then the second thing would be, what can I do to change my situation?
[00:35:48] Right.
[00:35:49] If you have a terrible boss and your relationship with your boss is terrible, what is it that
[00:35:54] I can begin to learn and do to change the circumstance?
[00:35:56] You're not a victim to the situation that you're in.
[00:35:59] You're actually a player and you can do something about it if you want to change it.
[00:36:03] And in learning how to do those things, that's going to equip you to be the better leader
[00:36:07] than your boss is, to be the better coworker than your coworkers are, you know, and in
[00:36:10] learning those skills, you actually end up becoming the person that everybody else values
[00:36:15] and everybody else eventually follows.
[00:36:17] And if you're in a place where they will not receive from you, no matter how well you're
[00:36:21] growing and how well you're doing, eventually they will remove you.
[00:36:24] They will kick you out, you know, or God will give you the opportunity to move.
[00:36:28] So find out why you're there, what your purpose is, and then find out what you can do about
[00:36:33] it.
[00:36:34] And if it's a place that you can move on from, don't just move on purposelessly, you
[00:36:39] know, don't just find another job because this job is hard.
[00:36:41] Find another job that's going to grow you in the things that you need to grow and find
[00:36:45] another job that's going to challenge you.
[00:36:46] Don't do the easy thing.
[00:36:48] You can, but you're going to grow a lot slower.
[00:36:50] Honestly, it's going to be a lot more boring.
[00:36:52] Do the thing that challenges you.
[00:36:54] And if you have no clue as regards to what God's called you to do in ministry and in life,
[00:36:58] my biggest advice is get plugged into your local church.
[00:37:02] Do something because the second you start turning your heart towards serving God, it's
[00:37:07] amazing how God will speak to you, how God will bring other leaders into your life to
[00:37:10] begin to speak to you.
[00:37:11] Even if you're meant to work in the secular world more than the church world, just getting
[00:37:16] plugged into the body because every person has a part to play actually opens up the life
[00:37:20] of God in your life in a brand new way.
[00:37:22] So confusion comes because we're sitting still and we're not moving and we're not doing anything.
[00:37:27] The second you begin to plug into the purpose of God in any way that you can see that you
[00:37:31] can serve, then God begins to open up understanding and doors of opportunity and all of those things,
[00:37:36] you know, sitting still will get you nowhere.
[00:37:38] So don't do that for sure.
[00:37:40] Yeah.
[00:37:41] Yeah.
[00:37:41] I liked it.
[00:37:42] Sorry, go ahead.
[00:37:45] Oh, I was just going to think for me, it's part of it.
[00:37:48] A lot of people think they're probably scared of making mistakes or failing and they have
[00:37:55] a real, maybe they try to conceptualize how everything's going to play out perfectly,
[00:37:58] you know, but I mean, even in sports, right?
[00:38:01] You, you, you set the best play that you know, how you don't know how they're going to
[00:38:05] respond to you, but then the next time you go make the next play, you, you adjust things
[00:38:10] in your life.
[00:38:11] You know, you, as they say, you fail forward, you keep trying things.
[00:38:15] And, uh, I think that's a big thing is people get paralyzed with fear or they try to analyze
[00:38:20] everything, but just keep, you keep learning by keep doing it.
[00:38:23] And if you fail, it's okay.
[00:38:25] You just get back up and keep going.
[00:38:27] And that's what really like, if you keep running away every time something gets hard,
[00:38:32] I mean, it's going to be like, there's like no stick ability in your life, you know, there's
[00:38:36] no grit or anything like that.
[00:38:38] So you're going to have to learn how to take some things and navigate through life.
[00:38:42] And that's a great, um, characteristic to have in your life.
[00:38:47] And I was actually thinking when Becky was talking about Nehemiah, right?
[00:38:50] Worst job ever.
[00:38:51] Like I have to eat poison for the King in case he gets poisoned.
[00:38:54] Right.
[00:38:56] And he's like, he's like a slave.
[00:38:58] Right.
[00:38:58] And he's in the court and he can't run away because he'll get murdered.
[00:39:02] And then he, his first thing is that he sees his people and then he says, God, I see my people.
[00:39:08] They're not in a great condition.
[00:39:10] The walls are broken down.
[00:39:11] Uh, I'm, I'm basically a hostage here, but, uh, and it started out as a complaint.
[00:39:18] He saw something that wasn't right, but you know, if you just keep complaining with no solutions,
[00:39:22] you're just a whiner.
[00:39:24] So, but he says, you know, he had a solution for it, but he's like, God, I don't know how
[00:39:28] it's going to work, but I'm going to do what I'm doing.
[00:39:31] I'm going to serve the King.
[00:39:32] And then he prayed and then God started opening doors.
[00:39:35] And I guess maybe he prayed and maybe he prepared and he went through it, but God did
[00:39:40] open up doors for him, you know?
[00:39:42] So maybe he did feel stuck in some, some, some degrees, but it's not that God is unable
[00:39:48] to move you.
[00:39:49] If you start seeing things that you can serve and, uh, and then just help other people.
[00:39:55] And like Becky says, if you add value, people will see it, you know, leadership's not about
[00:40:02] titles and they will, people will find, they always come to the person, the people you work
[00:40:07] with always know who's, who works the most, who's looking at the clock, uh, you know, who
[00:40:12] gives their heart, you know?
[00:40:13] So I think if you feel stuck, you're not limited.
[00:40:18] It's how you respond in those positions that will probably be the biggest factor in your
[00:40:22] future.
[00:40:23] Yeah.
[00:40:25] Cool.
[00:40:25] I like that.
[00:40:26] Yeah.
[00:40:27] Do you guys have any, uh, last things you guys want to share before we, before we shut
[00:40:31] it down?
[00:40:33] Yeah.
[00:40:34] Just in general, it's something that we all already all know, but our own personal walk
[00:40:39] with God is the thing that really makes the difference.
[00:40:41] If you have time every day in the word, time every day in worship, time every day to connect
[00:40:46] with Jesus, really it's the presence of God that helps bring clarity and direction.
[00:40:52] And, you know, for all of the things that we get to do and we love to do at the end of
[00:40:55] the day, nothing is more important than my own walk with God.
[00:40:58] If that's not okay, nothing else in my life is okay.
[00:41:01] And it seems so basic and foundational, but I think we really need to come back to that,
[00:41:05] that, um, if we want to be people of purpose, if we want to be people of passion, if we want
[00:41:09] to do something significant in our life, if we want to go places, it all rests on the fact
[00:41:14] that is my relationship with God alive and healthy.
[00:41:16] It's something that I'm plugging into every day or not.
[00:41:19] Yeah.
[00:41:22] Yeah.
[00:41:22] If your inner world's in chaos, your outer world's going to eventually improve.
[00:41:28] Well, it'll show it.
[00:41:29] Yeah.
[00:41:29] So I don't know what type of audience you have.
[00:41:33] But, uh, yeah, as Christians, our inner world should be, even as Christians, we still make
[00:41:38] mistakes and fumble and, and, and we're trying to figure stuff out.
[00:41:42] But yeah, if, if that key point where God isn't like the anchor and the direction setter and
[00:41:48] our identity giver, um, it's, it's really confusing for a lot of people and it can be such a challenge.
[00:41:55] So that would be probably if your inner world's taken care of, the outer world will take care
[00:42:01] of itself.
[00:42:02] Yeah.
[00:42:04] Cool.
[00:42:04] I like that.
[00:42:05] All right.
[00:42:05] Thanks for coming on my show guys.
[00:42:07] Okay.
[00:42:08] It's good to see you, Judah.
[00:42:12] Thank you everyone for listening.
[00:42:14] If you guys learned something or found it interesting, please share the video with someone as it helps
[00:42:19] me out a lot.
[00:42:20] Thanks.
[00:42:20] Thanks.